tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post8652868124761879020..comments2024-02-27T11:15:46.473-06:00Comments on Quidnon: Marine Russian Stove, Take 2Dmitry Orlovhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-87898478225234078402018-09-13T05:14:41.024-06:002018-09-13T05:14:41.024-06:00I like your Blog, thanks for share this blog.I like your Blog, thanks for share this blog.Stef Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03501096653587467706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-80350890368478326192018-06-05T14:56:47.972-06:002018-06-05T14:56:47.972-06:001. Please add a couple of small lugs with holes on...1. Please add a couple of small lugs with holes on either side of the body to enable bits of wire to be threaded through to form loops through which sticks can be run, to enable lifting and moving of the stove. Like a stretcher. <br />2. Rather than trying to divert heat from the cook top (which, being at the top will get v hot regardless of baffles) create an insulated lid which hinges up to rest against the flue when the cook top is in use. Typically such lids are about 100 mm thick, depending on the quality of the insulation. Will save you messing about with dampers etc inside, which will not really work anyway to keep the top cold enough to be safe without a lid. <br />http://www.everhot.co.nz/<br />3. Somewhere nearby you need storage for the day's supply of dry wood, and a locker for bulk wood supply when underway which is ventilated to dry and keep dry the firewood.Nigwilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16979413666054076403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-515377219621516822018-05-16T09:47:47.072-06:002018-05-16T09:47:47.072-06:00The term "steam trap" was reader-contrib...The term "steam trap" was reader-contributed, and I did find some commercially available elements that seem, from their description, to do the job.<br /><br />And the job is:<br />- Don't let steam through one way<br />- Don't let water through the other way<br /><br />What do you want to call it, and what do you recommend we use?Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-27415720827948426132018-04-29T11:36:19.301-06:002018-04-29T11:36:19.301-06:00The steam trap linked to above is designed to remo...The steam trap linked to above is designed to remove things (like air and condensate) from a steam line, it's designed to close when hot, not open.<br />What you seem to be describing is a pressure relief valve.Steve Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927543988218053738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-32855833952936115272018-04-15T19:18:33.062-06:002018-04-15T19:18:33.062-06:00Very cool. Love seeing how this project comes alon...Very cool. Love seeing how this project comes along!<br /><br />I would second the comment suggesting that a steam system should maybe be avoided, for corrosion and salt-deposit reasons. (and safety as well), in favor of a hot water system, with the heater outputting 85-90C water nominally. As far as the heat exchanger goes, it's a matter of higher flow vs dimensioning of the heat exchanger.<br /><br />The alternate solution to boiling of residual water when flow stops, is to divert the flow of the hot gas via a baffle or a heat shield. And keep the cold water flowing until the temperature of the hot surface is < 90C or so - in practice, when the measured temperature of the water coming out of the heater is < 60C or something like that. <br /><br />Homebrew exchangers making steam are an adventure. If anything goes wrong you won't want to be right next to it, and in a small cabin, you have no choice but to be near it.<br /><br />Ps- for a crude heat exchanger when there is plenty of heat available (as is typical with wood stoves), coils of metal tubing work fine. IMO managing the ash and hot exhaust should be the focus of attention - the components in the hot exhaust side are always what fail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-22089117559592864302018-03-19T14:53:21.172-06:002018-03-19T14:53:21.172-06:00Now that I'm thinking about it, another questi...Now that I'm thinking about it, another question. With the solid ballast no longer necessary, what will become of that space? More locker space? I was wondering where you would put the electrical system batteries. If you could access the space under the chain locker from inside the cabin, that would be a nice space to put them. Close to the inverters and controllers, but not in a high traffic area. Have you already figured out a use for that space?Gregory Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689727703774033272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-67929009415434255452018-03-19T14:25:32.290-06:002018-03-19T14:25:32.290-06:00An excellent, I hoping this was the case. I spent...An excellent, I hoping this was the case. I spent a lot of time squinting at the Quidnon youtube video trying to figure out how all the jigsaw pieces fit together ;) Glad to hear it.Gregory Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689727703774033272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-70044581587014101192018-03-19T07:29:44.571-06:002018-03-19T07:29:44.571-06:00Hi Greg, good question! Yes, the settees should be...Hi Greg, good question! Yes, the settees should be nonstructural and therefore removable. One of the possible uses of a Quidnon is as a cargo vessel. The entire salon can be cleared and packed with boxes of wine or wheels of cheese or what have you, loaded and unloaded using a cargo net through the large deck hatch. The pilot berths can also be used as cargo, as well as the U-berth in the bow, although being up above the waterline they should be used to hold lighter stuff. Even with the boat packed in this manner, there would still be full accommodations for a crew of 4, including two twin berths, galley, heads and places to sit down for a meal.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-82756911609469813212018-03-19T06:27:11.927-06:002018-03-19T06:27:11.927-06:00Hi Dmitry,
I apologize if this is not the right p...Hi Dmitry,<br /><br />I apologize if this is not the right post for this question, but I wasn't sure how else to get the question to you. I was thinking about the layout of the salon and I am curious how the settees are structurally related to the keelboard/water tank structures? I ask, because if you are removing one keelboard from the design, could someone also remove its corresponding settee to give more floor space in the salon? Or put another way, could a customer remove a settee without causing structural damage and/or harm?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />GregGregory Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689727703774033272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-65615122327885570132018-03-02T15:41:17.232-06:002018-03-02T15:41:17.232-06:00http://www.spiraxsarco.com/global/us/Products/Page...http://www.spiraxsarco.com/global/us/Products/Pages/bimetallic-steam-traps.aspx<br /><br />https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-8C4-1<br /><br />Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-70276744920042582022018-03-02T13:38:46.913-06:002018-03-02T13:38:46.913-06:00These are useful suggestions. I don't think th...These are useful suggestions. I don't think that being afloat changes the picture all that much, except for the boat rocking through 20-25º. Can you suggest some industry-standard components for these three elements—pressure release valve, steam trap and check valve—that would fit on 1/2" pipe? The cheaper and more standard the better.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-25365694836578154942018-03-02T13:01:51.328-06:002018-03-02T13:01:51.328-06:00Dmitry,
If your installation was on land I would ...Dmitry,<br /><br />If your installation was on land I would humbly recommend changing your 'float plug' to a bimetallic steam trap and using a poppet check valve (if mounted vertically) or a spring loaded disc check (horizontal) as the backflow preventer. <br /><br />You might even be able to get away with just the steam trap if you had the reverse seating style of trap where backflow help re-seat the valve disc. <br /><br />I'm trying to think of how being underway would affect that recommendation but don't have the experience to suggest anything. I have been told by qualified people who've run boilers on land and on a ship (Cdn Navy) that it's much harder on a ship compared to my land-based experience. But this isn't strictly speaking a boiler more of a hot water heater that needs to handle steam. <br /><br />Hope this helps ... Stuart Cramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071685959474494845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-19921026836896638922018-03-01T16:47:15.243-06:002018-03-01T16:47:15.243-06:00There is a Russian saying for a ridiculous underta...There is a Russian saying for a ridiculous undertaking: "Going to Tula with your own samovar." (Tula was a big samovar-making town.)Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-79729745523611775972018-03-01T14:36:14.980-06:002018-03-01T14:36:14.980-06:00You just described a samovar. Adding a fountain p...You just described a samovar. Adding a fountain pump just adds complexity, because you would need at least a float valve to keep the pump from overflowing the tank.MoonShadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026735575577934205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-69815641204163479362018-03-01T01:59:50.257-06:002018-03-01T01:59:50.257-06:00Yes, I realized that a diagram and some more descr...Yes, I realized that a diagram and some more description is needed to move the discussion forward. I am about to add one.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-11258523880463750872018-03-01T01:57:20.388-06:002018-03-01T01:57:20.388-06:00The type of pressure release valve I am thinking o...The type of pressure release valve I am thinking of is the type used in pressure cookers, and pressure cookers are not known to blow up at all. It's basically just a weighted needle valve.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-28047834592506641832018-02-28T20:19:28.572-06:002018-02-28T20:19:28.572-06:00If I am reading this correctly, the circulation pu...If I am reading this correctly, the circulation pump takes water from the hot water storage tank, pushes it to the *top* of the heat exchanger, and then the water just trickle drains back into the hot water storage tank. This being the case, a tiny weep hole just after the circulation pump will permit the trapped water to drain from the supply line, and there won't be any water trapped inside the heat exchanger to turn into steam anyway. The heat exchanger could be as simple as 1/4" copper tubing bonded to the back of the flue plate. There would be a small amount of steam produced when the circulation pump starts up again, but the volume should be trivial. The over-pressure valve remains a good idea as a safety backup, but I'd say a steam trap is overthinking this.MoonShadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026735575577934205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-67023098606451301462018-02-28T20:13:02.313-06:002018-02-28T20:13:02.313-06:00Nevermind that idea, I re-read the post, and my se...Nevermind that idea, I re-read the post, and my second idea doesn't make anything better.MoonShadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026735575577934205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-31157055815540900862018-02-28T20:06:15.797-06:002018-02-28T20:06:15.797-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.MoonShadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026735575577934205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-22226228959756660672018-02-28T19:44:36.887-06:002018-02-28T19:44:36.887-06:00My only concern is the over-pressure relief valve ...My only concern is the over-pressure relief valve being used as a process function valve. These things aren't really designed to be used repeatedly, and will eventually fail. In the interest of offering a possible solution, perhaps a second over-pressure relief value set to a slightly higher pressure, but with a small steam whistle attached to it. So when the primary valve fails, *if* it fails in a closed state, the secondary valve will open before a "boom-squish" condition can occur, while at the same time it will create a notification that something is amiss.MoonShadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07026735575577934205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-52932967306817132512018-02-28T12:31:33.509-06:002018-02-28T12:31:33.509-06:00You could probably also use the oxygen level in yo...You could probably also use the oxygen level in your exhaust stack as a good guide. Boilers typically run about 3% oxygen in the stack, 2% or lower risks you generating CO and above 3% you're wasting BTUs. I think sensors will trash the robustness of your design though ... Stuart Cramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071685959474494845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-63007492823238024282018-02-28T12:26:44.778-06:002018-02-28T12:26:44.778-06:00Dmitry, I know it's not a fully DIY option but...Dmitry, I know it's not a fully DIY option but have you looked at a steam trap? Lots of different options out there. Vendor websites may have the right model for you. Very robust, few moving parts and typically inexpensive. Hard to know what style to go with given the details you've got here but I think that may be an option. <br /><br />For the DIY option water is about .434 psi per vertical foot of head. So if you have enough steam pressure you should be able to force 'slugs' of water out. The key is designing the P trap so that the steam pressure builds to a high enough level to push the water out but doesn't vent before that. It's not like a sink drain, you need a orifice plate and a down-leg to allow the pressure to build without venting the steam constantly. That being said with the DIY option I don't know how to fully clear the exchanger as that steam you're using to force the water out will then condense and still need to be drained. Hopefully there's a good trap model/style out there for you. Maybe in a future post you could diagram out the exchanger system and we could crowdsource you some ideas? Stuart Cramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071685959474494845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-63311403527473335792018-02-28T06:52:18.966-06:002018-02-28T06:52:18.966-06:00The trickiest part of the design is that steam pre...The trickiest part of the design is that steam pressure is used to purge remaining water out of the heat exchanger once the hot water tank is hot enough, then the steam is vented and the heat exchanger sits empty. I haven't worked out all the details of this yet.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-65959457144399163742018-02-28T06:44:36.493-06:002018-02-28T06:44:36.493-06:00The air input to the hot air heating system will b...The air input to the hot air heating system will be a mix of inside and outside air. A fancy design would use a CO meter and regulate outside air input to keep it below a programmed threshold.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7334230772332433270.post-14242784750568149392018-02-28T06:42:53.035-06:002018-02-28T06:42:53.035-06:00NewsMyLife are a bunch of crooked spam artists.NewsMyLife are a bunch of crooked spam artists.Dmitry Orlovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00381674543530177679noreply@blogger.com